lfs or aquabid guppy?

[j-man the skater-man]

im considering breeding guppies. i was wondering what the users here would recomend. basically i wanted to know if yall would recomend starting with a cheap aquabid trio or just gettin some lfs guppies to start with? the guppies off of aquabid should breed relatively pure...but is it worth it to try and purify lfs guppies? i know it would take forever. also if i was going to breed them would i breed the sons to the mother and so forth?

[harif87]

If your considering breeding i would suggest aquabid as your best bet, why waste time trying to purify ?? Also you dont know what condition your getting them in when u get em from the lfs who, at least the fellas at aquabid can give you some background history on the fish your buying.

Also ive hear son to mother is not such a big problem generally you should breed non related fish as the outcome will be a purer breed than would one from a mother and son...... i might be wrong on that so wait for some other posts..

[leafgirl115]

Yes you are rong in some aspects....

I did a research progect and breeders use selective breeding. They also breed parent to son/daughter. They do this less than 2 generations with little to no side effects then introduse new blood.

[harif87]

Originally Posted by leafgirl115

Yes you are rong in some aspects....

I did a research progect and breeders use selective breeding. They also breed parent to son/daughter. They do this less than 2 generations with little to no side effects then introduse new blood.

Good thing you cleared it up...

I wonder though, how it wouldnt cause any malformations in the genetics of the new fry of a son and mother and malformations would occur with a brother and sister..........Could anybody help me on that one, or am i on my own?

[fish_doc]

Originally Posted by harif87

how it wouldnt cause any malformations in the genetics of the new fry of a son and mother and malformations would occur with a brother and sister........

With a parent/child only half of the genetic pool is identical.
the risk is there but the child only has 1/2 his genetic code matching the one parents. The other 1/2 is from the other parent. So there is a greater chance for no problems.

With brother/sister the entire genetic pool is identical.
so overall the risk is greater seeing the entire genetic code is the same.

[harif87]

Originally Posted by fish_doc

\

With brother/sister the entire genetic pool is identical.
so overall the risk is greater seeing the entire genetic code is the same.

Thats not true at all, the brother and sister might have similar dna code but the allels on the chromosomes wont match up.... you dont see every brother and sister of human families exactly alike....if they had the same genetic code they would be sister or brothers not brothers and sisters....

[leafgirl115]

your not on your own

think sci.
Every one hads 2 chromosomes. On from each parent. Let say mom(X1,X2) Dad(Y1,Y2) gave little Billy a X1 And Y1. His sister got X2, Y1. Then soem one thinks Billy should breed with his mom.
There fry will have one extra chromosome thrown in to the equasion X2 from the mom and y1 from billy. They only have 1 chromosome that links them = less chance of defomaties.

[leafgirl115]

Does that make sence?

[harif87]

Originally Posted by leafgirl115

Does that make sence?

Your logic makes sense but thats not how it is in reality. When miosis happens in reproductive cells not all of the reproductive cells are the same. The father has Y1 and Y2 but they arent the same genetically. If they were then 2 of out of every 8 kids would be exactly the same person. There is also the issue of alleles.. where parts of chromosomes switch places in reproductive cells.... and then the dominant and recccesive traits.. where reccessive traits can be seen more in girls than in boys etc etc

[leafgirl115]

Ok im 15. Im Grade 9 so i have not bean tought evert thing sory. But this is how breeders breed kus i did an interview!

[harif87]

Originally Posted by leafgirl115

Ok im 15. Im Grade 9 so i have not bean tought evert thing sory. But this is how breeders breed kus i did an interview!

loll sorry bout that didnt mean to be too overwhelming... but u know alot for a freshie lol

[doggydad38]

Um, Harif and Leafgirl, male Guppies are XY not YY. Linebreeding, (brother/sister, father/daughter, mother/son, uncle/niece, etc.) in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. All of these techniques, singly or in combination, are the reason pure breeding lines exist. Careful selection of breeding stock is the key. Pick the right ones and your line keeps improving. Pick the wrong ones and you concentrate the bad characteristics of the line and it will crash horribly and quickly. Most breeders breed in a closely related line every three to four generations to counteract a backward drift in the bloodlines and introduce new genetic material to make necessary improvements. I personally use a brother/sister linebreeding program with my Guppies. I also have complimentary lines I can use when an outcross is needed.
If you can afford it, go with Guppies purchased on Aquabid. The breeders there have much better stock than what you can find at your LFS. However, if you want to buy from the petshops and develop your own line, then you will learn more about genetics and how to use different breeding techniques. Do whatever your finances and desire tells you to do. Good luck!
Tony

[violet]

Hey J-Man,

What is your purpose of breeding guppies?

If you want to breed top quality guppies to sell at fish club meeting (or to any serious guppy fans), don't skimp and just buy a cheap trio from AquaBid. Get a quality trio from a buyer with a solid rep. You will make your money back on the first fry drop.

Cheap fish might be cheap for a reason. Sure, maybe the seller needs some quick cash OR maybe they won't breed as true as you would like. But they might be okay if you have a LFS willing to take some in trade for merchandise.

If you just want to experiment you could have fun with LFS fish but expect to go through many generations before you get anything stable. You may learn more though.

Do a Google search with key words like *guppy line breeding* and you will get some more extensive info.

In any case consider you will need multiple 5G or 10G tanks, glass canopies, heaters and sponge filters.


violet

[harif87]

Originally Posted by doggydad38

Um, Harif and Leafgirl, male Guppies are XY not YY. Linebreeding, (brother/sister, father/daughter, mother/son, uncle/niece, etc.) in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I am aware that a boy is XY and a girl is XX, we werent speaking about x and y chromosomes but rather in terms of variables x and y.

[fish_doc]

DNA is passed on otherwise DNA testing on humans would not work in paternity cases.
But putting all that aside.

The point that was being made was that you actually have a bigger genetic pool to choose from if you breed parent/child than if you breed brother/sister.
And the smaller the genetic pool the greater chance for birth defects and other abnormalities. It is a scientifically proven fact. That is why many states do not even allow cousins to marry, it is because the bloodline is to close.

[Ownager2004]

I dont think all the genetic discussion here was correct, but I think the basics were covered...

One advantage to getting non-true breeding guppies is that it would be more interesting in my opinion. There would be a variety of traits that you start off with to work with. Which would take some patience but would probably make it more fun.

[j-man the skater-man]

i believe since im just starting i will go with some cool lfs guppies. that way i can learn a little more

thanks for all the help

jason lol

[fish_doc]

My first guppies were lfs and all the same color. I ended up running 4 distinct color varieties from them because of their past bloodlines.

[emc7]

Try to find a show. Really nice guppies cheap in auctions.

[doggydad38]

If you are looking to purchase Guppies at a show, check out the Show Section of the IFGA website. Go to www.ifga.org check out the show schedule for one near your location. Auctions are usually held on Sunday after judging is completed.
Tony