Pregnant or sick?

[mamaber]

Hello, all. I'm new here and new to fish, but having an absolute blast!

My question is one of my black Mollies doesn't look to good. At first, I thought she was pregnant, but when I woke up this morning, she was much larger than last night, and her scales are sticking out all over her belly. Was my first assumption correct? Or is this something more serious?

Thanks!
Mamaber

[Zoe]

Pregnant fish's scales don't usually stick out - although its entirely possible that she is pregnant.
She may have dropsy. Dropsy gives fish a "pinecone" appearance, where their scales stick out. They may also swim nearer the surface of the water than usual, and fidget a lot.
Dropsy isn't so much a disease in and of itself... it's a "symptom" of another problem.

[Puffer Pita]

The most common cause of dropsy is water quality. How big is the tank? Do you know the water parameters? How long has it been set up? How did you cycle it? How often do you do water changes and how much do you change? Do you vacuum the gravel? Answers to these questions will help us figure out what the problem is.

[mamaber]

Kay, so I just checked the water quality. And I'm shocked! nitrate-40, nitrite-5.0, yes, ouch, I know, hardness-75, alkalinity-high, and pH-somewhere between 7.8 and 8.4. Not the highest quality kit, but all I've got. Now, 2 days ago I did a 25% water change, and do so 2-3 times a week. nitrite level has NEVER been above 0 after i change the water. My alklinity and pH have continuously been high, but I was told this would not be a problem. Your opinion?

It's a 29 gal tank with 10 mollies and lots of fry. I'm getting a second tank to raise the fry in as soon as I can. Right now they're in a breeding net. Going to do a 25% change now, then I'll be back to see if anyone else has posted.

Thanks!
Amber

I forgot to say...
It's been set up now two weeks. I set it up 48 hours before adding any fish. Yes, I thouroughly vacuum the gravel every time I do a water change.

[Zoe]

There's more to cycling that just setting it up and letting it run for a couple days... You have to introduce the bacteria that break down ammonia etc either by adding biospira to the tank, or gravel or filter media from an established tank... Or by introducing a source of ammonia (ie pure ammonia, a piece of shrimp, or a "disposable" fish) - in essence, that's what your mollies are, they are the fish cycling the tank. They went through the ammonia and nitrite spikes.
10 mollies is a pretty heavy bioload for a 29 gallon, anyway. I don't know how big your mollies are, but mollies from 3-4 inches long and they eat a lot and poop a lot. Plus the fry. That may be why your fish is suffering from dropsy at this point.

Keep doing the water changes. If you can, find a source of nitrifying bacteria (gravel, filter sponge from another tank, bio-spira) it might get your past the spike faster, but I think you're already past your ammonia spike.

I know you probably won't like this idea, but I suggest you return a few of those mollies to your LFS... It'll lighten your bio load and anyway.

[mamaber]

Thanks for your advice Zoe. I just did approx. a 33% water change, and the nitrite level is still high. I didn't realize about cycling the tank...I just did what Petco said to do. Set up the tank and let it run for 24 hours. I thought I was doing good by doing twice that. I think I'll go ahead and get a second tank and move some of the mollies into it. How often can I do a water change? How much is the maximum I can change?
Thanks again,
Amber

[Zoe]

Everyone has to start somewhere, Amber You can't just know everything. Petstore can give good advice, but they also give very poor advice. Like everything else, definitely research anything before you buy it. The bottom line for petstores is profit. Many will sell you a fish that is too big, too aggressive, etc, for your tank.

Right now, keep doing 20% changes on a daily basis, until you Nitrites are at 0 and nitrates are at ~10. It's better to do 20% daily than 40% every other day. For the time being.

Once your tank has cycled, you can do a 25-35% change each week. The maximum you would want to change is like 40%.

[mamaber]

Great, thanks. One last question for now...should I quarintine the Molly with Dropsy? I do have a fish bowl my mother in law gave me, but it doesn't have a heater or filter. I could place in next to a heater vent in the house to keep her warm.

Thanks for all your help!!!
Amber

[Zoe]

Because dropsy is a "symptom" of poor water quality, and not a disease, there is not need to quarantine your fish... if any of your other fish get dropsy it is because they were exposed to the same water conditions, not because they "caught" it from your sick molly.
I do advise you look up Dropsy on google, just to make sure that that is what your fish has.

Just so you're prepared for it, she probably will die. I've had one fish with dropsy, she developed symptoms a few days after I got her, and she died a week or two later. I've heard of bettas living with it for months, though.

Your best bet is to keep doing water changes and find a source of nitrifying bacteria.

I also suggest, again, that you bring some of the mollies back. I know you plan on getting another tank but in the meantime your mollies are suffering. It will also take your new tank a week or more to be set up and cycled. Bring them back to the LFS for store credit. You can get more when your new tank is up and running. Or you may want to look into getting another type of fish?

[Puffer Pita]

Originally Posted by Zoe

Once your tank has cycled, you can do a 25-35% change each week. The maximum you would want to change is like 40%.

I would have to disagree with this. There is nothing wrong with larger volume changes as long as they are done regularly. Almost all of my tanks get 50-75% changes weekly, including my larger tanks. My smaller tank get close to 100% changes, even the ones with HOB filters.

[Zoe]

I didn't mean that you shouldn't do larger water changes, but ~60% of 30gallon = four 5gallon buckets. I don't believe that that large a change on a weekly basis is necessary. I'd rather do two buckets on my 30gallon every 6-7 days than 4 or 5 buckets every 7-10 days. The water doesn't suffer for it, I just don't want to advise someone to do a lot more when they could do less. Part of it is preference, naturally.

[Puffer Pita]

I use the bucket system as well since I can't use a Python. I also have a number of health problems that make it a struggle to change even the 1g tank most of the time, and I have 14 tanks. But I believe in lessening as much of their toilet water as possible, so I do half on Sat. and half on Sun. We all do what we think is best for our tanks, at least most of us who don't insist on keeping large fish in small tanks. I just didn't want anyone to think its bad to do massive water changes regularly.

[Zoe]

That's not a bad idea, to spread it over two days.
I love doing the water changes on my 30gal, though, so I like to do them every 5-6 days, sometimes weekly, so I do less.

Water changes on the 90gal with the 5gallon bucket, I am not fond of... but hey, it's the price I pay, and my fiancé is the strong man, so he carries the buckets

[Damon]

I hate waterchanges. Cant stand doing them at all. Probably why I went with all larger tanks. More room for error Plus I never fully stock any tanks anymore.

[Puffer Pita]

Originally Posted by Damon

I hate waterchanges. Cant stand doing them at all. Probably why I went with all larger tanks. More room for error Plus I never fully stock any tanks anymore.

I don't care for water changes much myself. But I keep several puffers. Its amazing the amount of poop one little fella can make. And since they are pretty much single to a tank fish, "fully stocked" takes on a whole different meaning. I have one half-grown palembang in a 29g and its fully stocked, and two baileyis in a 55 (with a divider between them) and its fully stocked. Then again, I have a 55 semi-aggressive community tank that IS fully stocked. Most of the other tanks are pretty light on bioload, but I still do weekly large volume changes. I just can't imagine swimming around in a swimming pool that I've been peeing in without wanting a big water change.

[sonofbreeder]

actully it all depends on what kind of fish u have for how much water changes you want to do, like my dad has angels and when he does water changes they breed more and better so he does more but then i have a 55 with 4 Neolamprologus brichardi and about 100 fry between them and they hate large water changes so i normaly only do about a 25% or just replace the water that evaporated and they are perfectly happy

[mamaber]

Originally Posted by Zoe

Your best bet is to keep doing water changes and find a source of nitrifying bacteria.

My inlaws have a gold fish tank they've had set up for a couple of years. Would water or gravel from it be a good source of nitrifying bacteria?

Thanks to everyone for all your great advice. You've been a big help.

~Amber

[sonofbreeder]

yes it would be take a little bit of both but make sure u leave the gravel in the water

[Zoe]

My inlaws have a gold fish tank they've had set up for a couple of years. Would water or gravel from it be a good source of nitrifying bacteria?

Definitely! The water will help a little, but a good handful of gravel, from the bottom where it's all gunky, will definitely help.

[sonofbreeder]

make sure you keep the gravel in the water tho because you can kill the bacteria so leave it in tank water