guppy colour genetics

[guppyart]

okay I have been breeding guppies for 3 years now and I have never seen any info on colour genetics. I would like to know what colours are domninant or recessive genes as well as patterns and there genes. I am currently trying to keep a yellow snakeskin pattern going the male is whitish and the snakeskin pattern is yellow and I need more info for breeding him. I have his siblings still and I would like to know what breeding program should I use to perfect him linebreeding inbreeding or outcrossing I have 4 tanks for doing this in.

The genetics I have knowledge of are.
Albino(aa).
Blond(bb).
Gold (gg).
Blue (rr ).
double recessive colours
WHITE(Blond x Blue, bbrr)
CREME(Blond x Gold, bbgg)
SILVER(Gold x Blue, ggrr)

[TheOldSalt]

Entire books have been written on this, but most of them only say "we don't know much yet."
I'll sift through some of them and get back to you with what I find. I've also been scouring the internet for this info over the past few days, so there's some more for me to look through for the answers.

[guppyart]

Originally Posted by TheOldSalt

Entire books have been written on this, but most of them only say "we don't know much yet."
I'll sift through some of them and get back to you with what I find. I've also been scouring the internet for this info over the past few days, so there's some more for me to look through for the answers.

thanks so much I have been looking and looking but I havn't come up with much yet. I hope you have better luck.

[Baby_Baby]

I'll see what i can find. I did take a semester in genetics. fun fun fun

[doggydad38]

The former moderator has another website called Guppy Designer. I can't remember the web address. I do a search for the webisite and click on the link. You have to join the site to access the information on color genetics.
Tony

[guppyart]

Originally Posted by doggydad38

The former moderator has another website called Guppy Designer. I can't remember the web address. I do a search for the webisite and click on the link. You have to join the site to access the information on color genetics.
Tony

thanks I think I remeber something like that.

[Baby_Baby]

I have looked into various articles concerning this matter, and it appears that information is scarse. I have, however, fund a 174 page document which you may wish to look into in the future. Sorry I could no be of any further assistance in your search.

[TheOldSalt]

Guppy designer is a paysite, and frankly, by all accounts it's worth it. They have a book on CD available with probably the most complete collection of practical & useful guppy genetic information in the world.
However, every time I try to go there, my computer freezes up completely. The page might even load okay sometimes, but the second I touch the slider bar to scroll down, it freezes. I would love to order that CD, but I I don't guess I can.

baby_baby, what did you find, and where is it?

[Baby_Baby]

http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/guppies/

http://home.clara.net/xenotoca/variety.htm

http://members.tripod.com/~PPGA/midgehilloutcross.html


The last sight got kind of confusing for me. I don't think its what you're looking for, but just incase. Um, I don't know if any of them can help, but this is what I found on guppy breeding. I'll continue my search.

[guppyart]

okay thanks baby.
I got more info from a guppy site the guy that told has been breeding for years so he is reputable.

and this anwsers my questions hope this helps any serious breeders out there.


genes/colors and their location:
Body colors (all autosomal) are:
- grey - dominant over all over body colors
- gold/tiger/bronze - recessive
- blond/gold - recessive
- albino/rrea – recessive, there are two different genes which cause the albino phenotype and which can’t be differentiated
- lutino/wrea – recessive
- there are three types of blau: one blau –gene shows no red and no yellow
another blau gene could show reduced red but no yellow
and the other blau gene (this one is called “hellblau”, this is a German word which means light blue) could show yellow e.g. snake skin
- pink is something special because of its peculiarities, it has a reduced number of the big black colour cells (melanop****************s) and it looks like tiger in its pure manifestation (without the hb). In the combination with the Nigrocaudatus 2 gene (it’s the gene for half black/tuxedo) the back becomes pink, that was the reason for the name “pink”, because the first guppies with this body colour where pink half blacks. It is suspected that they have also an increased number of iridop****************s. - cream - double recessive, gold + tiger
- white - double recessive, blau + gold
- silver - double recessive, blau + tiger
- “super white” – triple recessive, blau + gold + albino
- you can breed more combinations but only for these double and triple recessive body colours exists a specific name

Some (not all!) colors:
1. colors for the fore-body (the belly, until the beginning of dorsal in their original appearance):
- coral is a metallic red which is in most cases y-linked but there should be one x-linked strain in Germany too. In Germany we call it “neon” . In the combination with one of the blau genes it becomes light blue.
- moscow is a y-linked gene in most cases but there are some x-linked strains too. It is a metallic silver until dark blue colour. The intensity depends of the mood of the male. You can find this gene in metal heads (y-linked moscow + y-linked snake skin) or moscow blues (y-linked moscow + y-linked blue + x-linked blue) or in moscow greens and moscow purples
- Schimmelpfennig Metall (this is the original German name) or platinum is a metallic white/yellow/bright purple/bright blue. It is y-linked in most cases but there are some x-linked strains e.g. in Japan too.
- lazuli is a light blue which is y-linked (I don’t know it for sure, because only the Japanese breed it and in Europe there are no lines of this strain, so I had to use a online-translation which could be wrong)

2. colors for the lower-back:
- half black (it is the Nigrocaudatus 2 gene) is a x-linked gene in most cases but there are some y-linked strains too. It is a more or less black colour. It could become dark blue too after some selective breeding ( you have to increase the number of iridop****************s which lay above the melanop****************s) . In combination with the platinum it seems to be greenish.
- japan blue/aquamarine is a light blue which is a y-linked gene in most cases but there are some x-linked strains too.
- Störzbach (Stoerzbach) metal is a recessive and autosomal metallic blue, but in combination with other colour-genes it makes them a metallic colour e.g. Mikarif (Stoerzbach metal + snake skin)

There a lot of colours which consists of several different genes for example full reds. There are 6 (perhaps more) different genes for red and they can be y-linked, x-linked and autosomal, some are dominant and others are recessive, so it’s very difficult to talk about reds and full reds. Some colours are shown on the whole body e.g. snake skin. And some colors are shown on the body and the fins e.g. blues (in blue delta IFGA strains), parrish and hutter greens, snake skins, reds, purples, 3/4 blacks etc.

The problem is that some body-colours or normal colours also effect the form of the caudal e.g. you cannot create a half black double sword. There are some genes which are not really a colour like red, but the effect the caudal form too. The x-linked gene "cp" is such a gene. It causes a dark pigmentation of the caudal and together with the “double sword-gene” it causes a delta tail. The delta tail always consists of two or more genes. There has to be the “double sword-gene” (which can be y- or x-linked) and a colour gene for the caudal. Sometimes the male has both necessary genes or the female has both genes or each sex has only one of these genes, but in all these case you got a delta tail.

I hope you can see that the genetic of the guppy is very complex and to create a new strain is a lot of hard work and a great challenge.

[blixem]

Holy... no wonder I never got interested in breeding guppies! =)

[guppyart]

Originally Posted by blixem

Holy... no wonder I never got interested in breeding guppies! =)

ya I know its insane there is so much knowledge

[Baby_Baby]

i love genetics. its so fun to study. lol. i'm such a nerd.

[guppyart]

Originally Posted by Baby_Baby

i love genetics. its so fun to study. lol. i'm such a nerd.

we all keep fish don't we.
being a nerd is fun.

[Baby_Baby]

wooh! go nerds! oh darn, i'm late for my chess club meeting! darn.lol

[Lexus]

You two seem to turn every post into a chit chat section there is MSN messenger you know!

[starsunmoon]

well I have been searching !!! for delta blues. ...... I THANK YOU BOTH for all this info !!! I have just purchased 2 dozen guppy fry and he called them delta blues.... so now I wanted to know what that meant , this post has been VERY helpful to me and I am glad you guys can chit chat you stAYED omn the subject at hand, I dont see any problem, THANK YOU 2 SOO MUCH ESP ..guppyart your info has helped me to know that I am indeed getting a nice breed of fish, and not some feeder fish ... thanxs !!!!!!!!~~~~~

[TheOldSalt]

Hey, hey, a 2 & 1/2 year old thread resurrection! WhooHoo!
( Sadly, that's not even close to the record... )

Anyway, Blue Deltas are guppies with the "standard american-style" triangular tails, ( Delta-shaped, that is, ) and those tails are a solid deep blue color. Very nice fish. You'll like them.

Guppies.com is another very good place to look for incredible amounts of guppy info.

I think I'm going to sticky this thread since it's so chock full of guppy goodness.

[starsunmoon]

yea I need to look at dates when i do a search, but I got carried away there in that one......LOL< but thanxs !! I am still in awaiting for my guppy,. I have a aquabidder sending me some common' guppy, hopefully I get a few nice ones and dont have to trade them all' into the lfs. LOL< but uknow greg would try to help me out there...hhmm.....anyway my molly are having babies !! I have 6 that are left in the tank with all of them, so far, so good. (well with the 6 left, they are getting bigger and growing good. there in a 29 gallon with 3 black molly, 2 are male. and one gold molly, female, and 2 white or silver(not sure were bought as white, ) both female, and one silver, female, A female dalmation ~~mommy" ~~~~~ and I belive the only males are the 2 black ones, I would have to ck again, 2 are reg finned, and most are lyrtail. sorry bout brining up old post, lol, but ooppss newbie here if the name display doesnt say it all..LOL, but I have had fish my whole life, and im getting into debt now since my divorce...lmao, my addiction is currantly ~ fish. I have many tanks, many fish, but I belive I want to breed some angels, (I dont have any yet ) and the bristlnose plecos again have to buy em.. I have some sherry barbs, they would be neat to breed . and well, I have to start selling some fish to help pay for this mokey on my back ..hehe.......thanxs salt, I will try to read the dates b4 I post from now on... lol. cant wait to get my pics up and show off my fisheys !! I have a 45 eco with red cherry shrimp that I have spent a fortune in !! might as well show it off !! lol, ok meet you all soon , ( In a newer thread...haha) buh-bye~!!