Hopeful 40g

MaelStrom · 07-08-2008, 10:09 PM

Ok well Im in the planning stages of my frist saltwater tank...
FOWLR
40g breeder tank
Skimmer: This
LR and LS: Up for suggestions(meaning who to get it from, and what kinds)
LIghting: Just a hood with a 10k bulb?
150w heater
Digital Thermometer
Refractometer
No sump

Ok, so since all I have running is a skimmer, I assume i need some powerhead to get things movin. Any recommendations?

Stocking list:
1 Saddle valentini
2 Sebae Clowns
1 wrasse ( most likely a fairy wrasse, up for suggestions here too)

And a CUC, which I will research later.

So, as an outline, does it look like I am missing anything? I know its pretty vague and theres things im really undecided on, but Im new to this and receptive of adivce

**TheOldSalt** · 07-09-2008, 03:24 AM

Pretty much any powerhead will do, but one of those new Koralia models would be sweet. You can put them anywhere, and they don't produce any heat in the water.
That's a decent enough skimmer.
The choice in lighting depends on many factors, of course, but it's usually better to go ahead and get the good stuff early on, since you'll certainly want it later, so why spend the money twice? A single 10K buld will light up the spot below it nicely, but the other areas will be too dark. This would be fine if you were sure that FOWLR is all you'd ever want, and if the liverock you got was fairly bare, but if you're like most folks you'll want to see your tank grow and evolve into something more.
Because of that, I'm going to suggest VHO lighting. It's not as popular these days as it once was, but it works very well and grows a lot of stuff. VHO will handle a 75, so it'll certainly handle a 40B just fine. Power Compacts use less electricity, though, if that's a concern.

As for your liverock, have a look at www.floridaliverock.com. You'll probably never see rock like that in stores. This is what rock should be, but usually isn't. Florida rock doesn't have those planarians that make pacific rock such a headache. The best part is that the stuff comes to you very fresh and usually requires almost no curing if any at all, unlike the pacific stuff. Your skimmer can handle what little curing waste it would produce, and it will keep you endlessly fascinated. Just a suggestion. The best part is that in about a month, tops, your tank would be fully cycled and ready for almost anything.

However, if all you want is a few fish, then your current plans are fully workable and should be fine.

MaelStrom · 07-09-2008, 10:19 AM

Thanks! IS this what you would recommend for lighting? link

s13 · 07-09-2008, 12:18 PM

You could use those t5s. Might not have complete coverage but should be sufficient. If you want to get more bang for your buck, I suggest a fixture like this one. http://cgi.ebay.com/36-156W-Power-HO...QQcmdZViewItem it is the same fixture pretty much that I run on my 29 gallon reef and it's been doing great, I have no complaints about it what so ever.

For your live sand, it really depends on whether or not you like the finer sand such as CarribSea FijiPink or if you like stuff like the "Special Grade Reef Sand" which is a thicker more coarse sand.

I use that skimmer on my 29 reef and it does a pretty good job, only thing is the damn powerhead that comes with it is HUGE. Word of advice though, with a FOWLER, usually comes a hefty bioload. I would reccomend atleast a canister filter. Odyssea sells a canister filter that is like 350gph and I believe it can be bought for $60. I know how everyone dogs on Odyssea products but we've been running this filter at the shop for a couple years now on a 30G Half Circle tank and it's been keeping it nice and clean.

Live rock can be had in a lot of places. If your LFS has some live rock with nice coraline coverage, and its a decient price, go ahead and get it there so you can pick the actual pieces out. Drs Foster and Smith has their select primium live rock 45lbs for 190 shipped I believe, comes with some nice purple coraline and sometimes the red and pink.
For the powerhead go ahead and pick up a maxijet 1200 or you could go with like two maxijet 900s for each side of the tank. Hope this helps!

MaelStrom · 07-09-2008, 02:32 PM

Eek Ebay lights... Well if you have one I guess they cant be so bad...
I think I will hold off on the mechanical filtration until I get more fish than are on the stocking list( I could probally add 2 or 3 smaller fish to that list right, assuming I keep up with filtration?). I would assume the skimmer and LR and LS would be able to handle the load of those 4 fish, but I am the new one here!
Also, with that lighting, do you think I could keep maybe a few Zoa's or Ricordea?
For a CUC, how about some small hermits( like blue legs) turbo and Nassarius snails, and a banded cleaner shrimp?

Is it more or does this look like its turning into a reef

s13 · 07-09-2008, 03:57 PM

For a 40B, I would make it a reef. IMHO, FOWLRs only look good when they are big and have a bunch of big fish in em, along with big eels and the whole shabang. If you look on ebay, they have a 36" fixture that is like 192w with compact florescents. That would give you about as much wattage per gallon as my 29 reef and you could grow, LPS, some SPS, ricordia, zoanthids, palythoas, green star polyps, ect. Best of all I think it was only ~$100 shipped. If it helps any, my brother runs ebay lights on his tank as well. The only thing I would suggest is swapping the 10,000K daylight bulbs for 50/50 bulbs. It really brings the colors of the corals out

MaelStrom · 07-09-2008, 05:11 PM

I was mainly going FOWLR because of its ease and simplicity. I might just get the nice lights, run the tank for a while and maybe convert it to a reef later if I get the urge.

EDIT: Do you mean this http://cgi.ebay.com/36-Aquarium-Comp...QQcmdZViewItem

**Scuba Kid** · 07-09-2008, 05:46 PM

I'd have to advise against Odyssey brand equipment. You get what you pay for, and in this case....really cheap crap.
If you're willing to spend the money and want something like metal halides, go for the Outer Orbit fixtures.
Obviously not necessary in a fowlr, but if you later want a reef, it's a sweet lighting system. Otherwise, I'd reccomend T5s.

MaelStrom · 07-09-2008, 06:05 PM

Mixed messages... fun

s13 · 07-09-2008, 07:10 PM

Yes, those are the compact florescent I was talking about. And just fyi, everyone I know that has spoke bad about odyssea never owned a fixture from them. They say it's really cheap crap but I don't understand what makes it cheap crap? It's made exactly like the coralife fixtures and is just as strong as my current orbit fixture (which doesn't even work anymore.)

MaelStrom · 07-09-2008, 08:46 PM

Well, Was just looking at live rock and sand prices and... wow.
Going to cost me somwhere between $300-400+.
Looks like a 10 gallon community tank for me... thanks for all of the help guys!

**Scuba Kid** · 07-09-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13

Yes, those are the compact florescent I was talking about. And just fyi, everyone I know that has spoke bad about odyssea never owned a fixture from them. They say it's really cheap crap but I don't understand what makes it cheap crap? It's made exactly like the coralife fixtures and is just as strong as my current orbit fixture (which doesn't even work anymore.)

I'm not one of them. I have the 72 inch CF fixture.

They really are made of cheap crap. You can hear loose parts moving around in mine, the fans barely work, and it came with two legs but the metal part where they are supposed to slide onto the fixture is so bent to hell I can't even put them on. Most of the fixture looks like it was slapped together without a second look to even see if screws were put in straight.
I know many reefers who have the MH Outer Orbit fixtures and have visited those with them and they are very nice lights. I can't wait to get mine.

s13 · 07-09-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba Kid

I'm not one of them. I have the 72 inch CF fixture.

They really are made of cheap crap. You can hear loose parts moving around in mine, the fans barely work, and it came with two legs but the metal part where they are supposed to slide onto the fixture is so bent to hell I can't even put them on. Most of the fixture looks like it was slapped together without a second look to even see if screws were put in straight.
I know many reefers who have the MH Outer Orbit fixtures and have visited those with them and they are very nice lights. I can't wait to get mine.

It sounds like you had a bad experience with a vendor. You could have probably gotten a refund or a replacement.

MaelStrom · 07-10-2008, 06:52 PM

Is live sand necesary? And I would need 45 lbs of LR minimum, correct?

s13 · 07-10-2008, 07:07 PM

Live sand isn't that expensive it can be had for cheap off of drs foster and smith, you could go with one small bag of live sand and one bag of dry sand if you wanted, the live sand will seed the other sand. With live rock, some live rock is lighter than others, Fiji for instance is sometimes lighter than tonga live rock. Basically, you can put whatever you think makes the tank look good. You don't even have to have live rock if you don't want it, you would just need an alternate form of biological filtration.

**Scuba Kid** · 07-11-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s13

It sounds like you had a bad experience with a vendor. You could have probably gotten a refund or a replacement.

Came directly from Odyssey.

Besides, vendors don't make the products, they just sell them.

Mael, you don't really need livesand. Within a few months, it will be seeded by the liverock anyway.

s13 · 07-11-2008, 08:07 PM

Then I must ask, why didn't you return the product for a replacement?

**Scuba Kid** · 07-13-2008, 04:59 PM

Why deal with that hassle when I know I'm replacing it soon anyway? Besides, Odyssey isn't known for their customer service, either.

The fixture was to get me started with my reef tank, which is why I went for the cheapest I could find. Within a few months, I'm getting a much nicer MH/T-5 fixture.

CollegeReefer · 07-13-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaelStrom

Is live sand necesary? And I would need 45 lbs of LR minimum, correct?

I was at Foster and Smiths Coral Confrence and saw Jullian Sprung speek. He actually was saying how good livesand bed will offer enough biodiversity that not all that much liverock is needed. He even suggested you can get away without liverock with a good live sandbed. Also pounds really doesn't mean anything when it comes to live rock just like watts per gallon means nothing for lighting. It really all depends on the rock. If you want to go cheap refer to this thread i wrote on using dry rock. It helps make things cheeper. Also check with your local reef club. Liverock at our club sells for as low as 2 per pound and is nicer than what you would find at a lfs.

MaelStrom · 07-19-2008, 06:02 PM

Well I might scrap the whole Valentini Idea... Im thinking more on the lines of...
Flame Angel
2 Banggai Cardinals
Sixline Wrasse
Maybe a clown or two

Any good gobies to keep the tank clean and the sandbed nice and healthy?

07-08-2008, 10:09 PM	#1
MaelStrom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 313 User Feedback: (0)	Hopeful 40g Ok well Im in the planning stages of my frist saltwater tank... FOWLR 40g breeder tank Skimmer: This LR and LS: Up for suggestions(meaning who to get it from, and what kinds) LIghting: Just a hood with a 10k bulb? 150w heater Digital Thermometer Refractometer No sump Ok, so since all I have running is a skimmer, I assume i need some powerhead to get things movin. Any recommendations? Stocking list: 1 Saddle valentini 2 Sebae Clowns 1 wrasse ( most likely a fairy wrasse, up for suggestions here too) And a CUC, which I will research later. So, as an outline, does it look like I am missing anything? I know its pretty vague and theres things im really undecided on, but Im new to this and receptive of adivce Last edited by MaelStrom; 07-08-2008 at 10:14 PM.

07-09-2008, 03:24 AM	#2
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,233 User Feedback: (6)	Pretty much any powerhead will do, but one of those new Koralia models would be sweet. You can put them anywhere, and they don't produce any heat in the water. That's a decent enough skimmer. The choice in lighting depends on many factors, of course, but it's usually better to go ahead and get the good stuff early on, since you'll certainly want it later, so why spend the money twice? A single 10K buld will light up the spot below it nicely, but the other areas will be too dark. This would be fine if you were sure that FOWLR is all you'd ever want, and if the liverock you got was fairly bare, but if you're like most folks you'll want to see your tank grow and evolve into something more. Because of that, I'm going to suggest VHO lighting. It's not as popular these days as it once was, but it works very well and grows a lot of stuff. VHO will handle a 75, so it'll certainly handle a 40B just fine. Power Compacts use less electricity, though, if that's a concern. As for your liverock, have a look at www.floridaliverock.com. You'll probably never see rock like that in stores. This is what rock should be, but usually isn't. Florida rock doesn't have those planarians that make pacific rock such a headache. The best part is that the stuff comes to you very fresh and usually requires almost no curing if any at all, unlike the pacific stuff. Your skimmer can handle what little curing waste it would produce, and it will keep you endlessly fascinated. Just a suggestion. The best part is that in about a month, tops, your tank would be fully cycled and ready for almost anything. However, if all you want is a few fish, then your current plans are fully workable and should be fine. Last edited by TheOldSalt; 07-09-2008 at 03:27 AM.

07-09-2008, 12:18 PM	#4
s13 After ye booty Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pensacola, Florida Age: 19 Posts: 151 User Feedback: (0)	You could use those t5s. Might not have complete coverage but should be sufficient. If you want to get more bang for your buck, I suggest a fixture like this one. http://cgi.ebay.com/36-156W-Power-HO...QQcmdZViewItem it is the same fixture pretty much that I run on my 29 gallon reef and it's been doing great, I have no complaints about it what so ever. For your live sand, it really depends on whether or not you like the finer sand such as CarribSea FijiPink or if you like stuff like the "Special Grade Reef Sand" which is a thicker more coarse sand. I use that skimmer on my 29 reef and it does a pretty good job, only thing is the damn powerhead that comes with it is HUGE. Word of advice though, with a FOWLER, usually comes a hefty bioload. I would reccomend atleast a canister filter. Odyssea sells a canister filter that is like 350gph and I believe it can be bought for $60. I know how everyone dogs on Odyssea products but we've been running this filter at the shop for a couple years now on a 30G Half Circle tank and it's been keeping it nice and clean. Live rock can be had in a lot of places. If your LFS has some live rock with nice coraline coverage, and its a decient price, go ahead and get it there so you can pick the actual pieces out. Drs Foster and Smith has their select primium live rock 45lbs for 190 shipped I believe, comes with some nice purple coraline and sometimes the red and pink. For the powerhead go ahead and pick up a maxijet 1200 or you could go with like two maxijet 900s for each side of the tank. Hope this helps! __________________

07-09-2008, 03:57 PM	#6
s13 After ye booty Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pensacola, Florida Age: 19 Posts: 151 User Feedback: (0)	For a 40B, I would make it a reef. IMHO, FOWLRs only look good when they are big and have a bunch of big fish in em, along with big eels and the whole shabang. If you look on ebay, they have a 36" fixture that is like 192w with compact florescents. That would give you about as much wattage per gallon as my 29 reef and you could grow, LPS, some SPS, ricordia, zoanthids, palythoas, green star polyps, ect. Best of all I think it was only ~$100 shipped. If it helps any, my brother runs ebay lights on his tank as well. The only thing I would suggest is swapping the 10,000K daylight bulbs for 50/50 bulbs. It really brings the colors of the corals out __________________

07-09-2008, 05:11 PM	#7
MaelStrom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 313 User Feedback: (0)	I was mainly going FOWLR because of its ease and simplicity. I might just get the nice lights, run the tank for a while and maybe convert it to a reef later if I get the urge. EDIT: Do you mean this http://cgi.ebay.com/36-Aquarium-Comp...QQcmdZViewItem Last edited by MaelStrom; 07-09-2008 at 05:26 PM.

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07-09-2008, 10:19 AM	#3
MaelStrom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 313 User Feedback: (0)	Thanks! IS this what you would recommend for lighting? link

07-09-2008, 02:32 PM	#5
MaelStrom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 313 User Feedback: (0)	Eek Ebay lights... Well if you have one I guess they cant be so bad... I think I will hold off on the mechanical filtration until I get more fish than are on the stocking list( I could probally add 2 or 3 smaller fish to that list right, assuming I keep up with filtration?). I would assume the skimmer and LR and LS would be able to handle the load of those 4 fish, but I am the new one here! Also, with that lighting, do you think I could keep maybe a few Zoa's or Ricordea? For a CUC, how about some small hermits( like blue legs) turbo and Nassarius snails, and a banded cleaner shrimp? Is it more or does this look like its turning into a reef

07-09-2008, 05:46 PM	#8
Scuba Kid Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: RI Age: 17 Posts: 4,142 User Feedback: (1)	I'd have to advise against Odyssey brand equipment. You get what you pay for, and in this case....really cheap crap. If you're willing to spend the money and want something like metal halides, go for the Outer Orbit fixtures. Obviously not necessary in a fowlr, but if you later want a reef, it's a sweet lighting system. Otherwise, I'd reccomend T5s. __________________ Current setups: 1800 gallon koi pond, 10 gallon planted, 150 gallon reef, other FOWLR tanks

07-09-2008, 06:05 PM	#9
MaelStrom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 313 User Feedback: (0)	Mixed messages... fun

07-09-2008, 07:10 PM	#10
s13 After ye booty Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pensacola, Florida Age: 19 Posts: 151 User Feedback: (0)	Yes, those are the compact florescent I was talking about. And just fyi, everyone I know that has spoke bad about odyssea never owned a fixture from them. They say it's really cheap crap but I don't understand what makes it cheap crap? It's made exactly like the coralife fixtures and is just as strong as my current orbit fixture (which doesn't even work anymore.) __________________

07-09-2008, 08:46 PM	#11
MaelStrom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 313 User Feedback: (0)	Well, Was just looking at live rock and sand prices and... wow. Going to cost me somwhere between $300-400+. Looks like a 10 gallon community tank for me... thanks for all of the help guys!

07-10-2008, 06:52 PM	#14
MaelStrom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 313 User Feedback: (0)	Is live sand necesary? And I would need 45 lbs of LR minimum, correct?

07-10-2008, 07:07 PM	#15
s13 After ye booty Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pensacola, Florida Age: 19 Posts: 151 User Feedback: (0)	Live sand isn't that expensive it can be had for cheap off of drs foster and smith, you could go with one small bag of live sand and one bag of dry sand if you wanted, the live sand will seed the other sand. With live rock, some live rock is lighter than others, Fiji for instance is sometimes lighter than tonga live rock. Basically, you can put whatever you think makes the tank look good. You don't even have to have live rock if you don't want it, you would just need an alternate form of biological filtration. __________________

07-11-2008, 08:07 PM	#17
s13 After ye booty Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pensacola, Florida Age: 19 Posts: 151 User Feedback: (0)	Then I must ask, why didn't you return the product for a replacement? __________________

07-13-2008, 04:59 PM	#18
Scuba Kid Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: RI Age: 17 Posts: 4,142 User Feedback: (1)	Why deal with that hassle when I know I'm replacing it soon anyway? Besides, Odyssey isn't known for their customer service, either. The fixture was to get me started with my reef tank, which is why I went for the cheapest I could find. Within a few months, I'm getting a much nicer MH/T-5 fixture. __________________ Current setups: 1800 gallon koi pond, 10 gallon planted, 150 gallon reef, other FOWLR tanks

07-19-2008, 06:02 PM	#20
MaelStrom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 313 User Feedback: (0)	Well I might scrap the whole Valentini Idea... Im thinking more on the lines of... Flame Angel 2 Banggai Cardinals Sixline Wrasse Maybe a clown or two Any good gobies to keep the tank clean and the sandbed nice and healthy?

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