Design and stocking of a 55g and 29g.

[sneasle]

Current fish on hand:

2 Angel Fish (mated pair)
1 Octo catfish algae eater (looks kinda like a flying fox, but not)
2 Swordtails (male and female, Both are a very nice bright orange)
1 Orange Platy
2 Glo Lite Tetras
1 Neon Tetra
2 Serpae Tetras
2 Buenos Aries Tetras
2 Long finned Black Skirt Tetras
1 CAE (or something very similar)

Current list of plants:

Amazon Swords
Ludwigin Repens
Dwarf Sagittaria
Wisteria
Aponogeton
Anacharis
Foxtail



Current stocking thoughts:

55g:
2 Angel Fish
8 Glo Lite Tetras (and the 1 neon. I don't think the LFS will take him as he is all alone and as common as he is. And I kinda like him.)
6 Swordtails (2 male, 4 female)
6 Guppies
6 oto cat algae eaters
4-6 Zebra/polka dot Loaches.
1-3 BN plecos

29g:
7 Serpae tetras
7 Buenos Aires tetras
1 CAE
3-5 small cories
3 oto cat algae eaters

Back to the LHS:
2 Black skirts


Current design ideas:

55g:



Basically what you see on the right is the big piece of wood I have, with the long tail plants I have behind it. Those same long black plants continue all around the back to the other side. Then around the tree you have the Foxtail style plants, along with the moss like stuff on the substrate. In/under the moss are more wood/rocks that make cave-ish areas. In the middle is a beach-like area section off by rocks (either a slate or rounded river rocks). the left of the tank has those long plants in the back again, with some almost as long, stringy plants in from of them, and then in front of those are more stringy plants that should be a bit shorter. In these stringy grasses will be more rocks/wood caves, along with Moss balls floating just over the grasses (yay for mine field!!). I will also have some free floating plants in the tank to provide surface cover for fishies that want it. I am hoping that this variety will provide lots of cover for any fish or fry that wants it and can get to it.

29g:
TBA


Pictures can be found here for those who want to see what I have:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../Fish%20Tanks/


Update 7/2/08:

Plants I am thinking about getting for the 55g:

SWORD-Amazon-Sm 6 $2.50 $15.00
BUNCHED-Anacharis 6 $1.19 $7.14
BUNCHED-Cabomba, Purple 3 $1.98 $5.94
MISC-Java Moss 1 $2.98 $2.98
BUNCHED-Rotala Rotundifolia "Green form" 3 $1.59 $4.77
MISC-Willow Moss 1 $2.98 $2.98
MISC-Micro Sword Grass PORTION (appx. 2x2")" 2 $2.98 $5.96
POT-Hairgrass, Dwarf 1 $2.98 $2.98
MISC-Java Fern 5 $2.98 $14.90
BUNCHED-Cabomba, Green 3 $1.98 $5.94


I will continue to update this first thread as the project evolves.

[sneasle]

The stand for the 29g came in today. I put it together and drained and moved and refilled/water changed the 29g into my room. I'll build the stand for the 55g tmrw before I head home to pick up the 70lbs of sand and gravel mom picked up for me. I should have some picks up by the weekend.

I also reorganized the plants in the 29g.. I think it looks a lot better now.. less cluttered..

[Ghost Knife]

Everything looks good as far as your compatibility goes. I bought 4 Serpae Tetras from a local pet store a couple months ago and put them in my Semi-Aggressive as I found out they don't do well in Community tanks and they are extremely beautiful and well behaved. Sometimes they do tend to chase the Tiger Barbs, but that doesn't happen very often.

[sneasle]

I haven't had an issue with the 2 I already have yet. They are gorgeous fish and they seem to hang out at the bottom of the tank in the plants.

[JustOneMore20]

Serpaes don't usually behave. They are well known fin nippers which is why people put them in semi-aggressive tanks. Sometimes there are exceptions though, but usually they are fine community tank fish. They don't make good tankmates for longfinned fish though, usually.

[sneasle]

Ya, I do beleive I Remember you mentioning that Kristin. I can see where they would be. They are a very fast fish. I had a very very hard time netting them so I could get tme out of the 29g so I could finish draining it to move it into my bedroom.

Before I moved the tank they seemed to enjoy hidding in the plants, but not so much now as when I moved the tank I planted it in a similar style to how I plan on doing th 55g and they have been more in the open since then.

I will keep an eye on them though. We will so how what happens when I up their numbers.

Any thoughts on the order in which I should bump the school numbers?

My plan currently is to build up the stand for the 55g tmrw and get it situted where want and then rinse and lay the sand down (I haven't placed my Dr. F&S order yet so I don't have my heaters or the layerite... I've taken the layerite ot of the order because of that, it would of spike the shipping cost anyway. I'll look for something local to replace it with). I'm not sure yet if I will fill the tank or not as I don't have the plants for it yet. I'd rather get water in it and the filters moving sooner rather then later because it will be a week or two before I can get all the fish together (and order the drift wood).

hmm.. decisons decisons....

[sneasle]

Update:

I got the sand in today. It looks like I didn't do a good enough job rinsing it out as the water in the tank (only about 5" as of now) is very cloudy and there is still lots of sand floating... not sure what to do about that...

I got the rocks rinsed off and boiled and in the tank. I also put the huge stump like piece of wood in.... I had to cut some parts off to get it to sit right.. kinda made me sad, but I'll use those pieces elsewhere. I also had to throw a huge rock on top to weight it down.

I haven't filled the tank up all the way yet, will do that tmrw and fight with the sand more before I cut the filters on.


I am having to change my plans a bit. The tank isn't deep enough for me to do what I want to do. It would work in a 40g breeder (I will look for one if petco puts them up for sale), but not in this 55g.

So, that being said my plans have changed to this:

I've got the stump in there. I will build a small rock area behind it. (right side of tank).

In the middle area I still plan on doing that sectioned off area, but it may not work out. It will all depend on the wood I'm ordering when I get it.

Off to the left I will build another rock area up to about mid level of the tank. Not sure how it will work out, but I will give it a shot.


I'd like some input on plants I could possibly integrate with the rocks. I like rock structures in tanks, but I don't like how plain they often look. Are their any plants what will grow on the rocks or weave in and out of the rocks?


Also, I need some input on diffusers for my co2 (Sorry JOM20, I'm going with DIY bottles.) Eventually I will go with a power head in the 55g tank, but I will hook up at least 2x 2l bottles on the 55g to begin with and one 2l on the 29g and I need to know what to use to get the gas distributed better.

edit:

Petco has some nice cory's that I think I will get. They don't have any suitable loaches (read, small enough loaches). They've also got a nice selection of swordtails as well. Their guppy stock is almost non existant right now which kinda surprised me.

[emc7]

I'd go with either guppies or swordtails, anyway, not both. A 55 looks like a big tank, but it really doesn't have all that much surface area.

[sneasle]

Why not? The guppies tend to stick toward the top of the tank and the swordtails are more mid level.

[emc7]

I guess I tend to think of them both as top fish and I've seen swords harass guppies. I also expect the angels to hog the mid/top of half the tank, so the rest of the fish will have a smaller area. I also your think stock list is a little heavy, esp. if the livebearers start reproducing (though I'm sure the angels will eat fry, and the livebearers will eat angel eggs). Its just my opinion, and its not fair of me to judge since I don't know your filtration or water change schedule. Still, I'd rather see you go up to 8 (1m to 3f) of one kind or the other. You don't have to start with all the fish, you can add more later. Although, if you add the tetras later, the angel could decide they are live food. I think cories are a good ideas, but you need 6-8. They will love the sand.

I like your plant plan. There are plants that do best tied to rocks, I just don't know which ones.

[sneasle]

I see your point. It is possible that once I get them in groups their behavior patters will change. I will keep a close eye on that.

The angels so far have been very very friendly, intermixing and playing with the other fish. The only time they have been hostile at all was when they layed some eggs.

Yes, the stocking is on the heavy side. I may reduce numbers if I feel the fish don't have enough room. I have no intention of attempting to raise any of the fry, and if any survive I will probably sell them off. If/When the angels lay another batch of eggs I may take the time to separate them, but I'm not worried about it at the moment.

The 29g has a single penguin 350 on it, the 55g will have two 350's. I will be ordering a python this weekend and will use that for 10-20% water changes each week, maybe more.

I am looking forward to the cories and loaches, i'm just not sure which will go in which tank. It will end up being based on which fish will grow larger and which fish prefers a larger school.

Thanks for the plan input. That list is what i already have on hand. I will be ordering some more from azgardens.com once I get some input from JOM20 on my choices.


The cories and loaches are a bit harder for me to get locally, so those will be the last to go in once I know the tank is stable.

My stocking will probably start with whichever of the fish I want that petco puts on sale first. I can usually find the glo lites, guppies, swordtails, and the ottco cats for about $1 a fish on a good day.

I am debating on if I want to add a pleco still. I foudn these guys.. they are quite nice and the price is good:

Clown Pleco Panaque Maccus a.k.a. Ringlet Pleco

Bushynose Pleco L-144A Ancistrus sp. a.k.a. Bristlenose Pleco

http://www.azgardens.com/algae_eating_plecos.php


I like these guys just cause they are cool looking. I'm not sure if they need groups or not, hopefully not .

Hummingbird Tetra Characidium fasciatum
http://www.azgardens.com/tetras.php

I really liek this guy and I think he would be very very cool with all of my sand:

Freshwater Flounder Brachirus panoides aka Tonguefish, Freshwater Sole.

http://www.azgardens.com/misc_fish.php


azgardens has lots of nice fishies that I haven't seen local, especially their cories. They don't have much in the way of Loaches, so that kinda makes me sad. I would rather order from one place and pay one shipping charge then from several

[emc7]

Bristlenose Pleco are a nice fish that don't get too large. I have had angels kill plecos when they are guarding a spawn, but that was in a smaller tank without that much in the way of hiding places. Angels have varying temperaments. I've had peaceful ones and I've got one pair that drove all the other fish in a 55 into one little corner and didn't let them out, even to eat. I don't know any thing about the other fish you mentioned.

Have you thought about keeping the angels alone in the 29 and putting all the rest in the 55? There is a chance they would raise their own spawn in that tank. You'd have to watch for signs of "divorce" though. In a 55, an unhappy pair will just go to opposite sides.

[sneasle]

If breeding them was my goal, then I would do that, but I don't really have the time or energy for that currently. The 29g tank is in my bedroom and the 55g is in the dining room, so I could do that with the 29g but I'd prefer to keep it a community tank.

[JustOneMore20]

I agree, I would get the Tetras where you want them number-wise, before moving the Angels over. I know you want them to have their space, but by them already being adult size, there is a chance they'd eat small tetras. I think if the tetras are in first, there would be a better chance of them not getting eaten by angels. If you could wait a month before moving the angels over, that would give the tetras some time to grow (though a month wouldn't provide a ton of growth, of course).

Now that I look over your stocking plan for the 55g again, I think it may be better to have Swordtails and not the Guppies. I can see the Angels harrassing the Guppies since they are small and stay small. Swordtails get a nice size to where they'd have a chance against the Angels.


FYI, I've heard bad experiences of people ordering from azgardens.com.....but haven't ordered from them myself (because of that). Their shipping prices are apparently outrageous and their packaging isn't good. Just thought I'd pass that along. I understand the reasoning of wanting to order from only one place though.

[sneasle]

Ok. hmm.. That kinda puts me in a weird spot. AZ's prices are better then liveaquaria (and the selection is better) but if I loose lots of the plants in shipments.. its not worth it.


edit: I'm really not worried about my angels guys. I know that they are a species that has the ability to get quite aggressive, but these guys are the sweetest things. heck, they even kiss my cat.

I think they will be fine with the guppies, especially if I move the angels over last so everyone else has a chance to find their own special areas.

I'll gets some pictures posted of the new plant arrangments on the 29g and the 55g setup in a few.


edit 2:

JOM20, do you know of any moss/short plant that will grow on rocks? I figure if I can get some moss/small plant to grow on my huge rock construction it would make it more fish friendly.

Out of my stocking lists what do you think the hardiest fish is? I would like to go ahead and get something in that tank once the water clears so I can get a bio load to aid the bacteria I transfered over in the filter.

[sneasle]

The cloudy 55g:

overview


rock


the big @$$ stump being held on the bottom by my two largest rocks.


more rocks, you can also see the cloudyness in the is picture


and another shot of the rocks.




29g on it's new stand:


plant shot:


another plant shot:


and some fish pics:

[sneasle]

Picked up 5 glo lites and 5 serpaes at petco this evening. Got them acclimated and in the tank. I'll check the levels tmrw, hopefully the bacteria will have enough load to get growing well.

Edit: the 55g had cleared up nicely by this morning. I moved a few plants over to help out as well.

[Ghost Knife]

Originally Posted by sneasle

Picked up 5 glo lites and 5 serpaes at petco this evening. Got them acclimated and in the tank. I'll check the levels tmrw, hopefully the bacteria will have enough load to get growing well.

Edit: the 55g had cleared up nicely by this morning. I moved a few plants over to help out as well.

Serpae Tetras should not be mixed with community fish because they are semi-aggressive fish. Glo-lites can be mixed with guppies, platys, danios, cories, neon tetras, cardinal tetras, mollies, and african dwarf frogs.

[sneasle]

Originally Posted by Ghost Knife

Serpae Tetras should not be mixed with community fish because they are semi-aggressive fish. Glo-lites can be mixed with guppies, platys, danios, cories, neon tetras, cardinal tetras, mollies, and african dwarf frogs.

I have heard many say they are aggressive, but I have yet to see any aggression from them. The 2 that are in the 29g have been nothing but friendly, no nipped fins anywhere in the tank.

The 5 that I picked up that I am using to help condition the 55g with the glo lites have been nothing but peaceful as well. Heck, they are even schooling with the glo lites (which is really cute).

If I see them acting aggressively or I start finding nipped fins I will relocate, but I am really not worried about them as they will end up in a school of 7 (assuming I don't loose any) in the tank with the buenos aires tetras, which will do a good job keeping them in line.

[trashion]

Buenos Aires tetras are notorious plant eaters, btw...Just letting you know before you put plants in with them.