80mpg 400hp mustang...

[sneasle]

This just smells like vapor ware to me, but on the off chance this isn't BS, I can't wait until it gets released.

http://www.mustangevolution.com/20080702712/

[TheOldSalt]

I believe it's real enough as an actual x-prize entry, but I don't see the tech ever reaching the market. Call me crazy, but I think that too many rich, powerful, and influential people will have seriously major objections to cars getting that kind of mileage.

[mrmoby]

I'd really be interested in knowing how they do it, if it is in fact legit. 400/500 is a great amount of power, assuuming it is a 5.0. The ramifications for use in trucks, for the people that actually need to have them is huge.

The way the fuel prices are the SUV market is dead. It would'nt surprise me to see unused tech coming out of detroit, because if they can up the mileage, people will buy again, and probably pay more than they already did. I don't really subscribe to powerful people keeping it under raps. If you were to see vehicles get this kind of mileage, you would see supply suddenly dry up. Don't worry, the oil cartels will get their dollar one way or another.

[COM]

I think it could be legit.

I was looking at a standard Audi yesterday that gets 215 horses from a 2.0 turbo four cylinder and gets over 30 mpg. The Stang numbers are not quite that far off and with an engine so much bigger, you can get some economies of scale.

It is absurd that we don't have 100 MPG cars for sale at this point. This is a clear example of business and government teaming up to screw us all.

[guppyart]

okay but honestly how many of us need more then a 100HP 1.6L engine?.

top speed means more tickets and risks,, a little 2000 suzuki esteem has tons of city zip and gets great mileage on the highway without a problem.
the little swifts were the same way and were a HUGE hit..

that mustang might beat the smaller import in a quarter mile but straight zip and handling in a city not a chance.

if it can't hit 45+ mpg on highway it shouldn't be called an economy car honestly :S

[mrmoby]

Yeah, but try plowing snow or towing with 100 h.p.

[guppyart]

it plows snow just fine,
in fact it plows snow better then my 2.0L 85 saab 900 does and thats a tank of a car.,that and I get more snow then you and its still running.

(notes that its also at 340k and still making that mileage. only maintenance has been the boots, and rotors).
not to many domestics can claim close to that as a reputation.

and depends on what needs to be towed, that little car can get alot more moving then people think it could.

and a overpowered mustang is also a deathtrap in snow/slush.

[mrmoby]

How are you plowing snow with a Suzuki Esteem?

I'm talking about work trucks. You aren't going to plow snow with a 100h.p.car, nor haul animals, boats, tractors, or other vehicles.

My point isn't about having a 400 hp Mustang (though from a hobbiest point of view it would be great), but the fact that the same motor used in the Mustang is the same one used in Ford trucks, means that the same type of mileage could be obained in a work vehicle, which would be a great benefit to those who need to use them.

[sneasle]

gees.. arguing about towing. Spend a week in Germany, you would not believe what people tow with their cars over there. When i was over there for Christmas, I only counted 1 pickup the entire time.


that being said, this would be wonderful if applied to trucks. I do think there needs to be a more fundamental shift in American thinking first. Too many people over here drive trucks and SUV's because they can. You shouldn't have a full size truck if you never have the bed full and only tow a boat to the lake 2x a year. In the same light, you shouldn't have an SUV just because you are a family of four. If you are personally too big to fit in a smaller car, then you have something to work toward.

I'm all for having something that makes lots of noise and goes fast, but do it on the weekend, don't use it as a daily driver.

[guppyart]

a 100hp car with fwd will plow snow better then a 500hp truck/mustang, purely cause of FWD> RWD.
in my parents years of driving that car daily all year since 2000 it has never been stuck and its been through 3-4 inches of slush several times,, or just plowing foot or so of snow cause the blades hadn't been out yet.
a large number of the cars/trucks you see in ditches out here in winter end up being RWD or AWD suvs thinking there gods cause they have awd and can do anything.
I punch the gas to go through a patch of slush/snow,, mustang punches the gas and meets the ditch.


but really 500hp from a engine while making 80mpg sounds like pure BS.
thats easily tripleing what that engine can get if driven nicely at canadian speeds on a highway..

if it work why not just apply that to a 100hp. 1.6L car and break 100mpg without blinking?.

unless he figured out how to run on fumes.

[fish_doc]

Part of this could be he might have taken all the emission controls off the engine. That restricts alot of the power. So without it you can tune the engine back to save gas and still have more power.

[guppyart]

but if it can't pass emissions tests won't it not be approved in a large portion of the states?

[TheOldSalt]

That hardly matters. It won't get approved anyway, no matter how clean the emissions.
Gasoline taxes are collected by the sales of gallons of gas. Reducing the number of gallons needed to be bought will directly impact the amount of fuel tax collected. It won't be allowed to happen.
One guy who owned a trucking company figured out a way to modify his fleet so that he got nearly double the mileage by adding alcohol to his fuel. He got slapped with an alcohol tax ten times higher than he would have paid in diesel fuel tax for his trouble.

[mrmoby]

Originally Posted by guppyart

a 100hp car with fwd will plow snow better then a 500hp truck/mustang, purely cause of FWD> RWD.
in my parents years of driving that car daily all year since 2000 it has never been stuck and its been through 3-4 inches of slush several times,, or just plowing foot or so of snow cause the blades hadn't been out yet.
a large number of the cars/trucks you see in ditches out here in winter end up being RWD or AWD suvs thinking there gods cause they have awd and can do anything.
I punch the gas to go through a patch of slush/snow,, mustang punches the gas and meets the ditch.


but really 500hp from a engine while making 80mpg sounds like pure BS.
thats easily tripleing what that engine can get if driven nicely at canadian speeds on a highway..

if it work why not just apply that to a 100hp. 1.6L car and break 100mpg without blinking?.

unless he figured out how to run on fumes.

I don't think you are getting my point.....maybe it is a difference in terminology. Are you going to outfit a Suziki Esteem with a Fisher Snow Plow, and push a foot or more snow out of a driveway or parking lot? That is what I am talking about.

As far as how it is done, supposedly through electronics. You could strip off the emmisions equipment and pick up the power for sure, but you wouldn't get those kind of mileage results. It's got to be all in fuel measure and delivery, and possibly selective disabling of certain cylinders under certain conditions.

Volkswagen has a prototype that will deliver 280mpg, and they say it is very likely it will go into production, although as a diiesel electric hybrid.

[wifishman]

i have to find the links but theres a guy getting 250mpg in a hummer. every vechile could have better gas millage but like tos said the govt wont allow it... to much lost money

[mrmoby]

I'm not so sure I buy into the theory that the gov't stops this sort of thing. Really, if they lost the money on number of gallons sold, they would just up the amount of the tax. Let's say there is a gov't squash on this, there has to be a breaking point. You can only fork over so much to the gov't and oil companies before you have no more to give. At some point it will cause a major collapse of the economy, leaving a whole lot more rich folks out of money. This economy is so far dependant now on oil, that something will change. And rest assured, there will be someone, along with Uncle Sam, there to make money off it.

Think of it this way, if gas usage was to drop off, to the point where the gov't loses a significant revenue source, you can bet they will start taxing on a miles driven basis, or something similair.

As far as big oil, they have a limited resource. It will always be valuable. They won't lose too many pennys either.

[akangelfood]

Originally Posted by mrmoby

.....maybe it is a difference in terminology. Are you going to outfit a Suziki Esteem with a Fisher Snow Plow, and push a foot or more snow out of a driveway or parking lot? That is what I am talking about.

Living in Alaska, I had to giggle at the idea of hauling our 4-place snowmachine trailer, fully loaded up, through the mountains in a snowstorm with a little Suzuki Esteem.

I also cannot resist the urge to grin when I try to imagine a small vehicle with a snow plow twice its size attached to the front trying to budge a snow burm...in my minds eye, I see a tow truck en route.

[wifishman]

Originally Posted by mrmoby

I'm not so sure I buy into the theory that the gov't stops this sort of thing. Really, if they lost the money on number of gallons sold, they would just up the amount of the tax. Let's say there is a gov't squash on this, there has to be a breaking point. You can only fork over so much to the gov't and oil companies before you have no more to give. At some point it will cause a major collapse of the economy, leaving a whole lot more rich folks out of money. This economy is so far dependant now on oil, that something will change. And rest assured, there will be someone, along with Uncle Sam, there to make money off it.

Think of it this way, if gas usage was to drop off, to the point where the gov't loses a significant revenue source, you can bet they will start taxing on a miles driven basis, or something similair.

As far as big oil, they have a limited resource. It will always be valuable. They won't lose too many pennys either.

or they just continue to do what they are doing... is it really so hard to fathom that govt is about 1 thing... the good ol dollar.. and lots of them. do they want to see expeditions go from 16 mpg to 100. hell no. that person is paying 500 a month in gas right now compared to 100 if he gets 100 mpg.

we complain, bit#$, piss and moan all day everyday but when it comes down to it we still need to drive ourselves around. this does bring up a interesting question tho... do you still drive the same ammount as u did 2 years ago? for as much complaining that goes on i would still bet that honestly we drive the same. i bet the ammount of gallons pumped each day is the same today as it was 2 years ago. so why would the govt do anything to change this... especially when we are paying 2$ more a gallon

[mrmoby]

Yes, but the gov't is going to make the same of revenue if gas is $100 a gallon, or $1 a gallon. The Fed gas tax is something like 50 cents a gallon. If consumption goes down, they would simply up the amount of the tax to compensate.

Personally, yes, I have changed my driving habits. I also bought a car that has double the mileage of my truck, which doesn't get used now except for foul weather and occasionally moving things. I think twice about going out, and never let it idle for heat or to run the a/c.

That can be said for a lot of people. Gas consumption here in the states is down. Dealers can't keep econo cars on their lots. Dealers can't get rid of their SUV's and trucks. Chrysler has already shut one minivan plant, and is dropping a shift at another truck plant. So I would say this is situation is causing people to react.

[sneasle]

I agree with that. Look at the market share of the big 3. they have lost so much market over the last decade that it is the equivalent of Ford shutting down.

They are starting to drop their 'unpopular' brands. Ford just dumped jag/landrover, and I bet you will see hummer, mercury, saab, saturn, buick, and many of those other specially brands dissapear.

If I came up with a 400/500 engine that got 80mpg in my garage, I would turn it into a kit and underrate it. Sell it advertising 30mpg, and let someone 'figure out' how to do that final tweak to the ECU to get the bump to 80.