Native Fishkeeping...how cool!

AshleytheGreat · 08-24-2005, 01:23 PM

Apparently Native fishkeeping has been getting popular over the years. Im def interested in this. Set up a nice 55 gallon tank and put in some sunfish, blue gills, and shiners. Live plants, gravel beds. Anyone do this?! Or have experience with it.

**TheOldSalt** · 08-24-2005, 02:28 PM

As a card-carrying member of both NANFA & the NFC, yes, I have experience with this. It may surprise you to know that american fishes are highly prized in other countries, even though they are virtually unknown here at home. Nanfa.org or nativefish.org are both good places to learn vast amounts about our native fish and their care.

euRasian32 · 08-24-2005, 03:19 PM

I looked into this mildly, stopped short because I wouldn't want to make a half cocked attempt in a 10 gallon. I'm going to wait until I have my own home and such.

I'm curious about, when you're successful in breeding and have a good batch of native fish, how do you go about releasing the fish back into the wild? I assume that it has to be authorized...

blixem · 08-24-2005, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euRasian32

I looked into this mildly, stopped short because I wouldn't want to make a half cocked attempt in a 10 gallon. I'm going to wait until I have my own home and such.

I'm curious about, when you're successful in breeding and have a good batch of native fish, how do you go about releasing the fish back into the wild? I assume that it has to be authorized...

Maybe contact your local fish and game station, or possibly one of your states fish hatcheries.

malawi4me2 · 08-24-2005, 07:44 PM

I would love to have the space to dedicate to another tank, and only keep native species of fish and plants in that tank! ...Must...Get...More...Tanks...

AshleytheGreat · 08-24-2005, 10:38 PM

Ill def check out those sites...

Thats a good point about realeasing them tho. I mean they are native and they would probally school till they get bigger but what if they have some kind of disease that they spread to all the clean fish...woo not good.

**TheOldSalt** · 08-24-2005, 10:52 PM

How do you release them?
You DON'T!
There are some strict regulations which must be followed for breeding fish for release, designed to prevent the serious dangers which releasing can cause. To get a permit for release, you have to run your breeding program the proper way from the very start in order to get the required permits. To dump fish without such a permit is a very serious violation which carries stiff penalties.

So what do you do with the fry?
1- you study them and document their growth and feeding & such
2- you ship them off to other native fishkeepers, or trade/sell them to local shops or fishclubs. There is usually no difficulty involved in getting rid of them

Don't worry about being stuck with a bunch of fry. If you think you're a hotshot breeder of tropicals, then trying to breed natives will give you quite a lesson in humility. It's hard. When rare fry are available, many hobbyists would love to have them, and there is even a big store which buys them.

Most of the native fish fans I know are uber-aquarists who make me look like a piker. We study native fish for the sake of studying them, since very little is known about them. We share our discoveries online and in printed journals. The fact that many of these fish possess beauty surpassing the fanciest tropicals is only a side benefit; we breed ugly fish too, just to figure out how to do it. Most of us have a specialty group of fish which we work with the most, and this arrangement works well for learning the most we can. I specialize in the nine species of shiners in the genus Pteronotropis, while others like madtoms, or suckers, or darters, or chubs, or primitives, or sunfishes, or whatever. We tend to keep what's handy to us. There aren't a lot of casual native hobbyists, it seems, with most of them being very serious types, but many native fishes make fine aquarium inhabitants for anyone. One of our goals is to disseminate information about these fish so that everyone can enjoy them. Since the florida fishfarms can't mass-produce them due to the heat, they don't tend to wind up in petshops. However, more & more of them are becoming sporadically available due to the efforts of those who study them, and one day I'm sure that many of them will be able to take their rightful place as common hobbyist favorites worldwide.

It's kinda funny; several decades ago most hobbyists were mainly native fish keepers simply because those were what were available, and those early pioneers made great strides. As developments in transportation made tropical exotics easily attainable, interest in native fish waned almost to nonexistence, and most of the information about them was lost. Now are once again looking at the natives with the same wonder & pioneering spirit of 100 years ago, pretty much starting all over again.

AshleytheGreat · 08-24-2005, 10:56 PM

Wow, never knew that.

Pareeeee · 08-25-2005, 08:18 AM

I wish that i had another tank so i could have some Brook Trout, those are beautiful fish.

Pareeeee · 08-25-2005, 08:19 AM

what if they grew really big and my parents decided to do a fish fry? Laughing....just kidding too

euRasian32 · 08-25-2005, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOldSalt

How do you release them?
You DON'T!
There are some strict regulations which must be followed for breeding fish for release, designed to prevent the serious dangers which releasing can cause. To get a permit for release, you have to run your breeding program the proper way from the very start in order to get the required permits. To dump fish without such a permit is a very serious violation which carries stiff penalties.

I figured there were serious stipulations.

So the conservancy is more about the study, not the population? I'm sure knowing more about a species will help control the dwindling numbers, in time.
Not that I don't find research part of the process interesting, I would contribute to the conservancy solely to avoid extinction of a species.

**TheOldSalt** · 08-25-2005, 02:31 PM

NANFA is the side which does the more research, while the NFC does more of the hands-on conservation work. NANFA doesn't breed fish for release but for study. The NFC works with groups which do breed for release. NFC also does a lot of environmental & conservation work, along with raising public awareness in a big way. Between the two, a lot gets done.

euRasian32 · 08-25-2005, 03:08 PM

I will most likely contribute when I can house more tanks. I currently donate a percent of my earnings to the coral reef alliance, not as active as i want to be, but its something.

C

Orbital · 08-25-2005, 06:53 PM

We kept some Iowa Darters, a bunch of bullheads, a few crappie and blue gills for awhile in a 50 gallon. After awhile all that was alive were bullheads. There was one catfish I think that was a flathead maybe, it looked abit different from the bullheads. There was also a couple bullheads that were not the brown type, they had some white whiskers.

Other then that most of my fish are from Africa.

fishboy · 08-26-2005, 09:10 AM

i want so badlyto keep a pumpkin seed sunfish but i don't know what size tank i'd need

fishfreaks · 08-26-2005, 11:49 AM

fishboy, did you try the pa fishing law and regulations site? I know they have profiles there of PA native fish. go here http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fis...22.htm#pumpkin if you haven't. I would say atleast a 50gallon.

**TheOldSalt** · 08-26-2005, 12:34 PM

Yep. Sunfish need space.

fishboy · 08-26-2005, 01:33 PM

now that i see that site fishfreaks provided i think i might actualy be catching endangered longear sunfish or possibly a hybrid panfish of some sort. Next time i go fish i'll take a closer look

fishfreaks · 08-26-2005, 01:56 PM

yeah, ive spent many days at that site for fishing

Orbital · 08-29-2005, 07:07 PM

We caught a nice little pumpkin seed sunfish at a lake while we were there in July I think it was. Surprising to see that colorful of a fish come out of a local lake.

08-24-2005, 01:23 PM	#1
AshleytheGreat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mi Town Posts: 784	Native Fishkeeping...how cool! Apparently Native fishkeeping has been getting popular over the years. Im def interested in this. Set up a nice 55 gallon tank and put in some sunfish, blue gills, and shiners. Live plants, gravel beds. Anyone do this?! Or have experience with it. __________________ So let the haters hate, let the doubters doubt, I stand by my book, and my life, and I won't dignify this malarkey with any sort of further response.

08-24-2005, 02:28 PM	#2
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,471	As a card-carrying member of both NANFA & the NFC, yes, I have experience with this. It may surprise you to know that american fishes are highly prized in other countries, even though they are virtually unknown here at home. Nanfa.org or nativefish.org are both good places to learn vast amounts about our native fish and their care. Last edited by TheOldSalt; 08-24-2005 at 10:22 PM.

08-24-2005, 03:19 PM	#3
euRasian32 Why So Serious? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Virginia Age: 33 Posts: 771	I looked into this mildly, stopped short because I wouldn't want to make a half cocked attempt in a 10 gallon. I'm going to wait until I have my own home and such. I'm curious about, when you're successful in breeding and have a good batch of native fish, how do you go about releasing the fish back into the wild? I assume that it has to be authorized... __________________ “Corporations pay people just enough money so they won’t quit. People work just enough so they don’t get fired. What's that about?” – Christopher Walken, Pool Hall Junkies

08-24-2005, 10:38 PM	#6
AshleytheGreat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mi Town Posts: 784	Ill def check out those sites... Thats a good point about realeasing them tho. I mean they are native and they would probally school till they get bigger but what if they have some kind of disease that they spread to all the clean fish...woo not good. __________________ So let the haters hate, let the doubters doubt, I stand by my book, and my life, and I won't dignify this malarkey with any sort of further response.

08-24-2005, 10:56 PM	#8
AshleytheGreat Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mi Town Posts: 784	Wow, never knew that. __________________ So let the haters hate, let the doubters doubt, I stand by my book, and my life, and I won't dignify this malarkey with any sort of further response.

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08-24-2005, 07:44 PM	#5
malawi4me2 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Age: 22 Posts: 354	I would love to have the space to dedicate to another tank, and only keep native species of fish and plants in that tank! ...Must...Get...More...Tanks...

08-24-2005, 10:52 PM	#7
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,471	How do you release them? You DON'T! There are some strict regulations which must be followed for breeding fish for release, designed to prevent the serious dangers which releasing can cause. To get a permit for release, you have to run your breeding program the proper way from the very start in order to get the required permits. To dump fish without such a permit is a very serious violation which carries stiff penalties. So what do you do with the fry? 1- you study them and document their growth and feeding & such 2- you ship them off to other native fishkeepers, or trade/sell them to local shops or fishclubs. There is usually no difficulty involved in getting rid of them Don't worry about being stuck with a bunch of fry. If you think you're a hotshot breeder of tropicals, then trying to breed natives will give you quite a lesson in humility. It's hard. When rare fry are available, many hobbyists would love to have them, and there is even a big store which buys them. Most of the native fish fans I know are uber-aquarists who make me look like a piker. We study native fish for the sake of studying them, since very little is known about them. We share our discoveries online and in printed journals. The fact that many of these fish possess beauty surpassing the fanciest tropicals is only a side benefit; we breed ugly fish too, just to figure out how to do it. Most of us have a specialty group of fish which we work with the most, and this arrangement works well for learning the most we can. I specialize in the nine species of shiners in the genus Pteronotropis, while others like madtoms, or suckers, or darters, or chubs, or primitives, or sunfishes, or whatever. We tend to keep what's handy to us. There aren't a lot of casual native hobbyists, it seems, with most of them being very serious types, but many native fishes make fine aquarium inhabitants for anyone. One of our goals is to disseminate information about these fish so that everyone can enjoy them. Since the florida fishfarms can't mass-produce them due to the heat, they don't tend to wind up in petshops. However, more & more of them are becoming sporadically available due to the efforts of those who study them, and one day I'm sure that many of them will be able to take their rightful place as common hobbyist favorites worldwide. It's kinda funny; several decades ago most hobbyists were mainly native fish keepers simply because those were what were available, and those early pioneers made great strides. As developments in transportation made tropical exotics easily attainable, interest in native fish waned almost to nonexistence, and most of the information about them was lost. Now are once again looking at the natives with the same wonder & pioneering spirit of 100 years ago, pretty much starting all over again.

08-25-2005, 08:18 AM	#9
Pareeeee Stargate Fan! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada, EH! Age: 21 Posts: 353	I wish that i had another tank so i could have some Brook Trout, those are beautiful fish. __________________ Pareeeeee ><((((º> -------------- Please Visit my site! --------------- My Critters: FW 33gal heavily planted and overstocked Blue, a lonely male killer melanochromis in a 5gal... Auzzie, a lazy Bearded dragon gal Pepper and Little Missy - my two cutest ratties in the world.

08-25-2005, 08:19 AM	#10
Pareeeee Stargate Fan! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada, EH! Age: 21 Posts: 353	what if they grew really big and my parents decided to do a fish fry? Laughing....just kidding too __________________ Pareeeeee ><((((º> -------------- Please Visit my site! --------------- My Critters: FW 33gal heavily planted and overstocked Blue, a lonely male killer melanochromis in a 5gal... Auzzie, a lazy Bearded dragon gal Pepper and Little Missy - my two cutest ratties in the world.

08-25-2005, 02:31 PM	#12
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,471	NANFA is the side which does the more research, while the NFC does more of the hands-on conservation work. NANFA doesn't breed fish for release but for study. The NFC works with groups which do breed for release. NFC also does a lot of environmental & conservation work, along with raising public awareness in a big way. Between the two, a lot gets done.

08-25-2005, 03:08 PM	#13
euRasian32 Why So Serious? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Virginia Age: 33 Posts: 771	I will most likely contribute when I can house more tanks. I currently donate a percent of my earnings to the coral reef alliance, not as active as i want to be, but its something. C __________________ “Corporations pay people just enough money so they won’t quit. People work just enough so they don’t get fired. What's that about?” – Christopher Walken, Pool Hall Junkies

08-25-2005, 06:53 PM	#14
Orbital Pimpin' fish ain't easy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Quad Cities, IA/IL Age: 30 Posts: 138	We kept some Iowa Darters, a bunch of bullheads, a few crappie and blue gills for awhile in a 50 gallon. After awhile all that was alive were bullheads. There was one catfish I think that was a flathead maybe, it looked abit different from the bullheads. There was also a couple bullheads that were not the brown type, they had some white whiskers. Other then that most of my fish are from Africa. __________________

08-26-2005, 09:10 AM	#15
fishboy Custom User Title Join Date: Feb 2005 Age: 17 Posts: 1,647	i want so badlyto keep a pumpkin seed sunfish but i don't know what size tank i'd need __________________ It is only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

08-26-2005, 11:49 AM	#16
fishfreaks M&F Couple Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: PA Age: 21 Posts: 4,276	fishboy, did you try the pa fishing law and regulations site? I know they have profiles there of PA native fish. go here http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fis...22.htm#pumpkin if you haven't. I would say atleast a 50gallon. __________________ VOTE FOR FISH FORUMS

08-26-2005, 12:34 PM	#17
TheOldSalt Darth Ichthyos Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,471	Yep. Sunfish need space.

08-26-2005, 01:33 PM	#18
fishboy Custom User Title Join Date: Feb 2005 Age: 17 Posts: 1,647	now that i see that site fishfreaks provided i think i might actualy be catching endangered longear sunfish or possibly a hybrid panfish of some sort. Next time i go fish i'll take a closer look __________________ It is only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

08-26-2005, 01:56 PM	#19
fishfreaks M&F Couple Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: PA Age: 21 Posts: 4,276	yeah, ive spent many days at that site for fishing __________________ VOTE FOR FISH FORUMS

08-29-2005, 07:07 PM	#20
Orbital Pimpin' fish ain't easy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Quad Cities, IA/IL Age: 30 Posts: 138	We caught a nice little pumpkin seed sunfish at a lake while we were there in July I think it was. Surprising to see that colorful of a fish come out of a local lake. __________________

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